Wednesday, 27 May 2009

  • Logical issues with TheTheologiansCafe Controversy

    Note: this post is rated C and touches on mature content such as rape.

    Normally I refuse to post any disagreement with individual Xangans on here. After all, they aren't getting paid, and they are just trying to have some fun and express themselves on here. And I HATE Xanga drama, sigh, and try to avoid it desperately. But I really was perplexed and disappointed with the latest posts at TheTheologiansCafe, and so I thought it worthwhile to see if anyone else felt the same way. Let me point out my complaints, and then please tell me if you agree. People clearly seeking drama or looking to pick an all-out fight with either me or TTC should go elsewhere. Hopefully I kept this fair; here goes.

    In case you missed it, Dan decided to use the time around Memorial Day to point out that rape is a problem in the military. This is a rather odd move to begin with, similar to say, believing that Martin Luther King Jr. Day is a great time to point out how many black males are in prison for committing crimes. It already seems shady to single out a particular minority in aggressive fashion and then force its members to defend themselves. However, if his post was well-defended, than I would agree with Dan using a holiday to raise awareness of an important issue.

    But what makes it worse is that Dan's logic for highlighting this isssue is flawed. He claims that a woman is more likely to be raped in the military than be killed in action. This is his entire point to his post. But this is a laughably cheap statistic. You know what else is more likely than dying in combat? Nearly everything you can think of, because very few soldiers have recently died in combat! Yes, it's more likely you'd be a victim of theft, or aggravated assualt, or shaving cream smeared on your nose while sleeping, or being tickled by your bunkmate, or served pickes for lunch, or raped, or pretty much ANYTHING other than being murdered in combat. The same is true in civilian life; murder is one of the rarest crimes. I could pick any issue and highlight it in the same way. So why does Dan so excitedly tell us several times about this when the same comparison could apply to many things?

    Dan had a follow-up post crying about being censored on the topic. "How dare some people be offended about his post about rape?!" "How dare Xanga rate his post C and thus lower his page views?" However, he wrote a post soon after anyway to make up for it, so was he really that disadvantaged? Dan has no problem getting page views anyway.

    As evidence of how unfair it was, he complains that two other posts were not taken down. This is similar to the thief in jail complaining that "Other people who steal didn't get sent to prison." Sure, he has a point. Posts about porn and penis cakes perhaps also should be censored, and I suggest you not click those links. But does it change what he did? Of course, Dan fails to note that those other entries were not ranked as high as his entry in top blogs and thus were less noticeable. Once again, a logical failure that way too many people failed to notice.

    But let's take on Dan's point that censorship is done via "emotional appeals." Ok, so if emotional appeals is a bad idea, what is the alternative? Would Dan prefer that censorship instead be done according to some lengthy list of rules? The Bible? Who would create such a list? And wouldn't it create more problems to apply this list? We already have enough problems with the word c*****ship being automatic. Yes, censorship should be done according to what people say, not according to some list of rules or doctrine.

    Censorship done right means that when a large portion of the community is offended and hurt by something, one weighs the rights of this large portion against the rights of everyone else. Someone has to make the judgment call on this, and the Xanga team did so. That's how it should be done. Dan admitted that several people were upset and angry about his post.

    Who do you think should have more rights? People who have suffered rape themselves and/or were in the service and don't think it's a matter for joking or sarcasm, or Dan? The way I've asked that question is one-sided and biased while pretending to be open-minded and make a logical comparison. It should be familiar to readers of TheTheologiansCafe .

    Finally, let's get to the final part of Dan's defense on censorship. He says "and catch the larger point that it is odd that we honor those who have died in war while ignoring a larger problem such as rape in the military." So in other words, your relative and the other 50,000+ dying on the battlefield in Vietnam is less important than rape in the military. It's sad to see someone so obsessed with trying to prove his point that he has lost touch with rationality. What could be more important than life itself? I think that makes it pretty clear how Dan truly views veterans while trying to shield himself behind the covering of  "sarcasm." Or would he like to claim that this too was sarcastic?...

    This was quite a waste of my time. I'm just tired of seeing so much careless writing, followed by emotional rhetoric not grounded in any sort of sensible logic. I deliberately rated this "C" so it won't appear on the Top 50 list. But I felt I needed to make my point and see if anyone agreed.

Comments (59)

  • You know, I've said some pretty vile shit in my time, and I've never been censored.

    But I think that people expect that from me, so.

    (I'm mostly in agreement for a few salient points)

  • Great post, love the use of logic; logic seems to be a lost art. I rec'd it, but I think my audience is all either too conservative or too young to see C rated entries. Either that or I don't really have an audience and I'm trying to justify the lack of visitors from my rec using other excuses.... logic wins again.

  • @Drakonskyr - I guess I'm just so irritated because it's Dan--he's our star of Xanga, so I expect great posts. When I don't see them, my trigger finger gets itchy. 

  • Honestly, the vast majority of stuff that I've read of Dan's in the past has mostly been him trying to stir the pot.  I rarely (if ever) read anything of his anymore.  I don't really see him as a writer, but as someone who just tries to rile people up.  I always got the impression that he just liked being a 'famous' Xangan...it really doesn't surprise me that he would post something like that.

  • Actually, knowing two women who were assaulted sexually in the military, but were never killed in combat, raised the issue for me. Women are vulnerable in uniform simply because it has been a man's world for so long. Rape in the military is a serious matter that is highly covered up, as has been shown time and time again. Dan may have gone about it carelessly, but it may have been the perfect time to think about an issue that rarely gets the attention it deserves. His first post was admittedly in bad taste. The second was fine imo. As far as Xanga taking it down...well I can't agree with that either. From a personal standpoint, when I had 40 plus rec's on a post that slammed uncensored photos of a dead aborted fetus, the other bloggers post was never taken down, and she had far less support. That blog upset plenty of women who had lost children to miscarriage, premature births, and those who had abortions. So, by the logic you use here--should her post as well been censored? Maybe, but it doesn't seem like the standard is drawn on a level playing field

  • Man I hate being served pickles for lunch, especially after a full night of my bunkmate tickling me.

  • I didn't get myself mixed up in this post, so I can't adequately comment on this issue, but I am reminded of the last "censorship snafu", when Paul Partisan saw his interview with Snippie and ASM featured, then removed because it featured a line that might have been considered offensive to Dan. Now it seems the shoe is on the other foot.

    And reading through this, I'm reminded as to why I don't comment here as much as I should: Your posts are too smart for me. Dumb them down and I'll comment more often.

    (I'm kidding about that, of course... keep them as smart as you are able )

  • I agree with your argument here. I've actually been disatisfied with TTC for a long time, but that isn't why I agree with you now. That would be allowing my past judgement on his blogs to cloud this specific circumstance. No, to be fair, I have not read his post, so I can't really comment on it. I will only say that I agree with how you presented your case here.  From how you explained it, it seems like he's taking advantage of the holiday and a practically non-issue for his own readership gain.


    My daughter has a fake sales pitch related to people who will try to gain attention from anything.   She noted how there were president's day furniture sales, cinco de mayo car sales..and *gasp* even martin luther king jr. day sales!! (?)  so she came up with the following plug, mocking that sort of greed/sensationalism>>>


    "It's the Terry Schiavo day sale!!! - time is running out..so you better hurry b/c we are pulling the plug on high prices!"


  • excellent points. don't know what else to really say. 

  • I think you made some good points.....what is usually posted at the cafe is a little careless, I think, and not always thoroughly researched...more of a "stir the pot" as you say. I don't take it too seriously.

  • @NatalieTheSaint - Haha, me too.

    And I agree with nearly every point you make. It was in bad taste, but it did cause the issue of rape in the military to be discussed. 
  • I have issues with censorship. Not because I don't believe in boundaries but because I don't believe art, lit, or music should be censored. The blog however depends. I haven't read through the privacy policy for xanga but I'm pretty sure it would give them freedom to rate sites as they please. Also I'm sure we have a settings section and can choose the posts we view. Anyone under a certain age should be barred from viewing the lower ratings.
  • I am so glad you decided to post this...Dan has gone too far. TTC wrote something like, "Thank you for putting your vaginas on the line for us" for a closing to his "post." Uhm...excuse you? It was in incredibly poor taste and judgement, and it's about time his online fame diminishes...Xanga popularity should be delt to someone who can use their "most viewed" power to benefit, not to offend...I understand that you cannot please everyone in this community, but his attempts paint the clearest picture of intentional.

  • I enjoyed reading this.  Raising awareness for rape in the military is a good thing, but I can't help but feel he did it for pure controversy and attention for himself.  @colormethespian - I agree.  That last line was almost like saying "take a rape for the team, military women!". 

  • @GreekPhysique - i didnt read the specific post, but i definitely do not believe theologians cafe is anywhere near "our star of xanga"

    @colormethespian - thoroughly agreed.
  • @storyslut - Yeah...I think you're right. Talk about twisted, and the problem is, he's getting more attention by being controversial than he would have had he been respectful...part of me doesn't even want to mention him because he's just getting more publicity. *sigh*

  • I never sub'd or befriended Dan... just never felt the need to, regardless of his popularity. Yet when I came across his thoughts on rape in the military after someone else started making rebuttals or comments on their own blog ... I was stunned. I've noticed a gradual decline in the attitude of what he posts but this seemed to beat everything else, in my opinion... I think you did a wonderful job at sharing your views (which I share) so I won't go more into my thoughts on his post itself, except to say... I was extremely upset to read it at all and then even more upset to see that it made Number One on top blogs - what on earth is that saying about Xanga in general? It's ridiculous... thanks for a well thought out post on this heated topic.

  • i still don't know what rated-C means....

  • I have never subscribed to Dan, but I do read him on occasion, and I did read the blog in question. My opinion of him is that he is a needy, attention-seeking, wanna-be writer. I won't comment on his "Christian" faith since I don't know him personally.

    You make great points, John. Keep up the good work.

  • I agree with most of the comments. Dan's writing is below par. 

  • Hey, thanks for the great idea for the post on Martin Luther King Day.  That is brilliant.


    I wasn't asking for special treatment.  I was asking for the same treatment.  You mentioned how the other blogs were lower so no one noticed them.  The reality is the penis cake post had to be approved by an editor.  So it isn't like it wasn't seen.  And the porn post had been at the top section for some time. 


    By the way, I found the inconsistencies in seconds by looking at top blogs. 


    I am sorry for getting the porn post knocked off.  I think you can still go find the link.

  • I think that you raise some good points.  I think ultimately the question is whether the subject matter really deserved a "c" rating or not, and i can see why it would, but am unconvinced that it should.

  • I think you're someone else who totally missed the point of his posts.  =/

  • I still wonder if it would have been nearly as controversial had it not been posted on Memorial Day.  And the answer, based on the irrationally emotional arguments I've seen so far, is the most disturbing part of the entire episode.

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