May 21, 2013

  • The Odd Game of Caring Second

    One of the odder things I find about dating is how, in today’s culture, it feels like the man should care second. That it’s the woman who first says “I love you,” who exhibits some type of romantic loonery, who decides that the couple should have “THE TALK” about feelings that ends up in both of them being in a relationship. Then the man responds in kind, and the relationship can unfold. What’s the man supposed to do before the woman does something caring? I suppose the man struggles with important dilemmas like “I kind of like her, but this one cute girl liked my last FB status update, so I don’t know.”

    What happens when a man violates this rule, and cares first? In my experience, commitment/strong attachment occurs very quickly, or the woman runs off wailing “Creeper!”, depending on how hot the guy is various factors.

    But I suppose the oddest thing about the “Caring Second” game is that often, men are faster to like someone and get attracted than women. So why does American culture seem to somehow expect the woman to make the first emotional step? I’m not sure who is more insulted by this stereotypical expectation, the man or the woman. Hmm.

Comments (27)

  • And when you're a stubborn ass of a girl like me, you're kind of screwed! If I don't want to take the first emotional step, I'll wait around forever.

    So here I am waiting around forever :)

  • i'm not big on taking the first emotional step. its scary, and i'm never sure if someone is as into me as I am into them. in reality, most times i care a heck of a lot more than i let on.  also, the thought sometimes pops up like i wonder if he said it back just to be polite lol

  • I didn't know we were supposed to take turns.

  • I'm not sure how it normally goes down for me. Last time, I just said that I wanted to talk to him about something and told him I felt a strong emotional connection, and he just up and told me he loved me. He also made it "Facebook official" which is something I won't do on my own, because I don't want people to know who I'm dating.
    My problem is I fall fast and hard. And I've gotten in the habit of being honest about it with people I trust.

  • Fascinating.
    Believe it or not, this post gives me a profound piece of insight.

    Now, how to apply this to my dating strategy... hmm.....

    My problem is I care too much, make the first emotional commitment and am generally told that I'm a "nice guy." Or so I'm told.
    At the present time, I'm treating these symptoms by diluting my attention pool and trying to approach several women at once. It is challenging.
    I call it "securitizing the dating portfolio." If it can work with mortgages, I'm sure it will work with women.

  • I was never the first to say, "I love you" in any of my relationships (all 3 of them). Even when I felt like saying it first I didn't because with my first 2 boyfriends, I was their first girlfriend. Then I started dating Reid who had been in multiple relationships, one of them lasting over 2 years and he told me he loved me on our second date (which knowing him and how he used to be was completely shocking. I doubt he was ever the first to say he loved his SO in his previous relationships... I think he has even admitted that).

  • I always though it was the guy who should care first. The guy is expected to make the first move by asking the female out. The guy is expected to initiate phone calls/texts/etc. But it does seem true females do show they care more first...or maybe it's a mix?

  • Interesting. Perhaps because of the deeply Christian culture I am immersed in, I very much prescribe to men should care first - at least  in making the first move (i.e. the "DTR" that leads to dating). It's something about the man pursuing the woman. I don't know about who should say "I love you" first. It's been a long time since I've dated and I haven't really dated within this deeply Christian culture context, yet, but I think I'd probably wait for him to say it before I did... I might "care first" in thought only, but not in action. *shrugs*

  • I hate the idea of men caring second. I feel like I have to make everything happen, but at the same time balance being some bizarre idea of "feminine" and not coming on too strong.

  • I couldn't make that first emotional move. I need to know first if the guy likes/loves me before I can also express my feelings. I feel the same as jersey_jenn and reginasikora above.

  • I need to know I'm adored first before wearing my heart on my sleeve. I figure if he feels that way he'll let me know because the type of men I'm attracted to take the lead in romance and life in general. Taking the lead makes me feel unfeminine, and I also don't want to smother him or take away his feeling of masculinity (I know some men do not perceive it this way because of how gender roles have blurred in recent years.  I can only speak for the type of man I wish to attract, which is a more traditional type.) 

  • I guess I never gave this topic much thought. I've never assumed that guys are supposed to care second and show interest after the woman has expressed her feelings. In fact, when my husband and I first met, he's the one that "cared" first and expressed his emotions to me. 

  • hmm. I always excepted the guy to say i love you first. 

  • My boyfriend was the first to say I love you. I put boundaries up saying that its too soon. I guess it depends on the people involved. Most of my guy friends are more emotional then girls I know.

  • I was going to comment on the comments and later figured it is better to be quiet and let the young people develop their own rules.

    I have no magic formula about dating the right girl or doing commitments. A divorced man is the last person you would want to hear advice from.

    Basically it is odd and sort of pathetic to be single (I should know!) Good luck everyone in the dating game. I hope you get what you want but we all know it is not all about what you want and what you get.

  • It shouldn't matter, in my opinion. If you love someone, and you feel the mood is right, then by all means go for it. I think it's this whole "men are physical and women are emotional" b.s. that keeps things like this a going concern.

  • As far as I can tell, the popular media tends to focus on men making the first step. Stereotypical romance plotlines usually involve the man professing his love for a woman and then subsequently proving himself worthy of her love; indeed that is the type of approach emphasized not just in media but in churches and the like (eg: "Let him lead").

    For most of my guyfriends and I, we've always felt that it was expected that men cared first and that women cared second. I've never really heard the concept of men caring second unless it's in the context of the guy being a "jerk" or an "asshole" who would appear "unreadable".

    When I was in college, I had a friend who was into the pickup artist stuff, and I remember him talking about something similar to men "caring second" as a means of exerting control over the pace of the relationship, and maintaining plausible deniability. Basically the same reasons why many women take a passive role in determining the boundaries of a relationship, except the only difference is that when women do it, we tend to sugarcoat it with BS about "being feminine" and all that jazz.

    As far as the "talk" is concerned though, I think that that is usually pursued by a person if they are on a timetable. In a lot of cases it's the girl as a result.

    All that being said... I think that if you like someone and you're open to dating them, then it's definitely worth making the first move - regardless of gender.

  • I don't give a fuck until they do. 

  • it doesn't have to be a romantic intention to earn you the creeper moniker. just wanting a genuine strong friendship with a deeper connection will get you that bought and paid for if you aren't the right kind. 

  • I agree with you. A lot of men don't follow the social mores of yore in which a man was meant to be the protector and leader in a relationship. From my personal experience, the few men who actually pursued me I found to be way more attractive than the ones who didn't care about traditional gender roles. It made them seem more masculine, strong, confident, and caring of the woman. 

  • Wait! I didn't know this was a rule. I always thought the guy was supposed to initiate these things! Although, when guys DO initiate these things or come on too strong it almost always scares me off, and the only relationships that actually went anywhere in my life were the ones where the guys treated me totally platonically and I had to do pretty much all the initiating. So maybe there is something to this.

  • I love when a guy initiates. It makes me feel wanted and loved. :)

  • People are idiots!

  • I don't think it matters who makes the first move. What I don't like is if someone is all in my face about being attracted to me before I've even had a chance to get to know him. I'm all for whoever wants to make the first move doing so, but let the other person know a bit more about you than, "Do I think they're cute?"

  • Waiting for the girl to make the first move won't work. I tried it from about the age of 12 to the age of 22 and came out of it never having been in a relationship or kissed a girl.

    They literally will never make the first move unless you're super rich or famous or hott.

    For all the talk of how a guy making the first move shows how much he cares about the girl... It really makes me wonder just how much women actually care about men.

    Alek Novy on women overvaluing dating skills in men:

    http://aleknovy.wordpress.com/2012/08/26/on-women-overvaluing-dating-skills-in-men-amanda-marcotte-response/

  • I've actually never heard of this unspoken rule, not to be annoying or anything. Sorry to relate all of this to my own stories, but it's sorta relevant. 

    My boyfriend was actually the one to ask me to "have the talk" first, when we were just casually/friendly seeing each other. (We were at first only hanging out platonically in the context of language exchanges, you see)  Anyway, after a few weeks, he was like "So, I'm having feelings for you that are more than friendship, and while I'm not asking anything fof you, I just wanted to let you know, and see where we should go from here." 
    I was like "DAYUMMMM" and respected him so much for actually acknowledging his feelings and then *gasp* sharing them with me. 
    I think perhaps that not just men, but North Americans as a whole have trouble expressing feelings because of fear of getting hurt. I don't know what it is... but see, I dated someone from Europe and he had NO problem acknowledging boyfriend/girlfriend status right off the bat, no problem with commitment, whereas my prior experience had been of cold feet (either me, or the other party) with North Americans. My current bf is from South America originally... and he has NO problem with feelings or expressing things, or commitment either. granted, this could just be my experience, but through the people I know and stuff I've seen... I feel there are certain trends for holding back one's feelings, for fearing commitment, for being more isolationist and selfish, emotionally, here, than elsewhere in the world. I could be wrong... but anyway, that was my take. Interesting topic.

  • It seems to work out much better when the guy says "I love you" first.  Although, if he says it way way soon - like within a month, and you only see each other once a week, it's silly to think he knows you enough to even know.  That really cheapens it ..A LOT.

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