October 7, 2007
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The Church and I: Man Church
I'm now starting my own church for men only. There will be no singing, because guys are not very good at singing. There will be NO small talk, and men who ask each other "How you doing?" will be asked to leave if it happens more than once. Smiling when you don't mean it will be met with similar punishment. Idle time during church, mislabeled "fellowship" is strictly prohibited; the schedule is clear, and church is an intense experience, not a laidback visual spectacle.
Church starts with everyone split into two groups; those who feel they were successful last week at implementing what the pastor said to do, and those who were not. The rules are very clear who belongs in each group; no longer will all the rules governing church be ambiguous and unwritten. But each man is allowed to self-identify himself in either group. Those who were successful will celebrate and get pumped for next week. Those who failed will console each other and plot and scheme how they can fix things next week. Then the two groups will come together to hear the sermon, which will be about something concrete. It'll be aimed toward something we can actually DO in the next week, instead of things we should think about. Instead of singing, we will march outside around the church and chant appropriate spiritual slogans. Guys like action, so there will be a punching bag for those who feel like they need to work out some anger during service. There also will be a soundproof room...but it'll be for screaming and shouting, not for babies. Prayer will be emphasized, but prayer is not allowed to be silent. You must pray out loud, for everyone to hear, and if you're clearly not being honest and forthright in your prayer, you will be told to be quiet and let someone else pray who really wants to talk to God. And each service ends with all men pledging to uphold standards of honor, of responsibility, and working hard.
Ha, I know this sounds weird, but I went to church today, and I just felt very out of place as a man. First time this has ever happened to me, but it did. I felt like everything was a waste of my time, and none of it really meant anything. I'm not sure if it was my attitude, the devil, or that church really was that poor. Either way, I would like to give man church a shot, ha.
Comments (18)
I only read the first line "guys are not very good at singing". Then I stopped.
Sigh.
^Yes, this is as biased as can be; certainly, many men can sing. Feel free to poke numerous small holes in my post, as long as you pay attention to my main point.
My computer is weird at work. Feel free to delete the repeated junk comments.
I read this post thinking
a) This was a joke post
b) You were setting up a viewpoint only to tear it down.
But the ha-ha never came, and I didn't see you refute anything in this church structure. So... All I have to say is wow.
I want to poke holes, but I don't want to be insensitive to your thoughts. Let me know if it's ok for me to share.
So, are you saying that "woman church" would be a waste of time? And wouldn't mean anything?
Just being facetious.
This made me laugh - glad to see you're posting again. When did you move/how did it go?
Bokgwai, there are two ha's in the last paragraph. This is one of those posts where I'm just blowing off some steam and taking an extreme viewpoint just because I'm tired of the status quo. I'm not looking for people to poke holes in my argument, because it's not a real argument. I'm just arguing that some facets of church as it's currently constructed suddenly irritate me, and wondering out loud what the opposite of that might look like.
You are absolutely not alone in your viewpoint. This article may interest you:
http://www.goodnewsfl.org/other.asp?page=BC/1007/other/men.asp
I'd have to agree with Sunflower. If this is a man church, where men can be forward, honest, manly (the first two subsets of the third modifier), then church as we know it is being ruined by women, who are superficial, idle, indirect.
Since you know me a little, you can reaffirm that this is how women are, right?
Many of your issues are cultural issues which have become manifest in the church. They have nothing to do with gender, but life here, now, in the US, in the 21st century.
Engage that culture, John. Question why we accept things for being the way they are, why we allow Christianity to be a reflection of class, education, gender (and, to some degree, sex). Ask why our Churches are treated like some country club that we all get dressed up to attend, where the pastor (and his wife) must be perfectly dressed, coiffed, and must look like they've got it all together. Where we can ask for prayer for safe travels but not for mental illness/depression/stress.
I have many of the same problems you've listed in the beginning, John. But as I read your answers, it seems that you just want to change the culture, really staying at a rather superficial level. Where is Christ leading you? What do you think he wants to see in his Church? You're still looking at the people, John, and that doesn't change anything from the structure you are criticising.
Dig deep, dig long, dig hard. These questions need to be asked, and they need to be answered, and not just in a "change the things we do" but in a "why we do them" way.
Very true, something perpetually on the floor due to my awesomeness can't really drop any farther.
Okay, maybe I'm out on a limb here, but I'm taking this post as a good piece of satire -- pretty dang funny but with its share of good points.
And in that spirit, I'd like to ask about dress code -- loincloths, right? Body painting is in, or out?....
when and where.
this is how i feel alot of times when i go to church. this did change recently.
i pretty much had to come to the conclusion that just talking... and not doing... was junior varsity. very junior varsity.
of course, in assuming that it's a man thing, you're discounting the possibility that it's a greek thing. you might want to look into that. although the loincloth might bring the two together for you...
my friend is reading the book WHY MEN DON'T GO TO CHURCH which claims that the church is feminized. i find that really funny in light of the fact that the church has been dominated by male leadership.... hmmm? is it some kind of self hatred thing?
in any event, i'm waiting for my party invite.
Oh, ok, let me drag myself to answer each comment:
sunflower2457: Thanks for cleverly skewering me with the woman church part
really, I didn't mean to be so offensive to women. The men/women divide seemed to be as good a label as any to identify what I was feeling. To be honest, I just felt completely uncomfortable at the church service in every way (as a man, a Greek, an introvert, an academic, a cultural conservative, etc.). What irritated me most, for some reason, was the "Let's greet one another" part in church; being a visitor (2nd/3rd time there), and not knowing anyone, I just didn't want to talk. I wanted to understand the church and decide whether I should attend or not, not put up tenous bonds of friendship that I may have to break if I decided to leave. Also, I have been spending a lot of time alone, having recently moved, and it just felt very invasive and overpowering.
Right now, where I moved feels like a complete disaster. I hope to be more optimistic in another 30 days.
weedorwildflower: I read the article--thanks. I finally am being honest with myself and admitting that Sunday morning service is not very productive for me. Where I really have grown and formed spiritual bonds are in parachurch ministries, house gatherings, retreats, and smaller weekday services and prayer meetings. It's just my temperment; I want to worship the Lord with a few dedicated fellow believers, and Sunday morning is usually not the place for me. But almost every church I visit just has Sunday morning fellowships, or life groups that are closed/far away, and I'm too old for student groups. It's really frustrating.
galumph: See my comments to sunflower2457. Yeah, I just kind of grabbed a label. I keep forgetting people take me seriously on here
. Right now, I just want to be in a decent faith community where I can make fellowship bonds; sadly, I now seemingly have to depend on the church not only for spiritual nurture, but also for friends. This stinks, quite honestly; now church has to be really good, not just ok, and it's not holding up for me under that pressure.
Ninjitsuknifer: The only thing on the floor about your awesomeness is the electric fence to keep you from inflicting that awesomeness on others. :-p
freakyJesusmusic: I was going to mention drum-pounding, but it's so last week; already been done. And face-painting only.
nusong: I usually try to make some changes to the church environment I'm in, but I moved, so I'm trying to find a church, and friends. Therefore, I'm being pushed to reconsider things a lot more.
theotica: Sheesh, you and drew with your loincloths. :-p I usually disagreed with the "church has been feminized" school of thought, but with the strong emphasis on praise-and-worship, and my own feelings of late, I'm starting to wonder. Frankly, and I know I'll get hate for this, I see praise and worship as a very feminine procedure, and most enjoyed by females. I can get into it at times, but it is not at all my preferred method of talking to God. (My preferred method, of course, is shouting over loud Christian music in an enclosed car while hoping people who know me don't notice :-p).
Gotta start meeting people so you can fellowship; why not start with spreading the peace?
Perhaps church wouldn't seem so feminized if men would actually step up and lead.
You don't think a service full of face-painted, loincloth wearing men would be a laid-back visual spectacle for the women tending the babies in their version of sound proof rooms? Haha, I had to say it. But seriously, when taken down from the extreme I can't say I entirely disagree with what you wrote.
My opinion:
There are often more women in church than men for these very reasons. You've got something to say that I kind of like.
Anyway, my grad school has a thing called "WomenChurch" where no men are allowed. It freaks me out - there's no way I'm attending!
hmmm... worship and praise has been an area where women have been tolerated in leadership... i wonder what that has to do with your observation that they are "feminine" expressions. serious question here.
i connect with God intellectually. i have a very worshipful attitude when i am alone with my books. it's not that i hope no one notices, i just hope they leave me alone.
Sure. For myself, I don't like worship and praise for the following reasons:
(1) My singing voice is rather poor
(2) I hate singing the same thing over and over again; it feels so repetitive
(3) I feel restrained in my options; it's close your eyes and lift your hands, only
(4) It feels fake or staged; the worship leader has his/her "transition" phrases memorized, etc.
(5) I best commune with God when we are alone, not when I'm in a crowd
To me, most of those reasons are more man complaints than female complaints. Some aren't; clearly (5) is a little more my personal introvert gig than being a man. But some are. Male worship, in my experience from all-male campouts, is a little less about singing repetition, and I feel there's less of a "What's your worship style" feel to it. Just my two cents.
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